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Home » Scientology » Church of Scientology » Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology (Asking for re-entry into the group of people who I consider my friends)
icon3.gif  Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1879] Fri, 20 November 2009 23:35 Go to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

Do you approve of Geir Isene's Liability formula?[ 30 votes ]
1.Yes 30 / 100%
2.No 0 / 0%

This write-up is the next step after my earlier published "Doubt write-up". This is the closure on the support I have given to an organization that is acting contrary to the basics of Scientology and systematically violating human rights. The outpoints that I have witnessed is outlined in my Doubt write-up.

I became aware of systematic violations of Scientology ethics, technology and policy within the church since the autumn 2003. At that time a mission from the European headquarters in Copenhagen (CLO EU) came to Oslo and assigned the whole Norwegian field of public Scientologists the ethics condition of Treason. I was blasted for no real reason by the D/CO EU in a way that made me aware that something was rotten in Denmark. I was since made increasingly aware of the outpoints through my involvement in the OT Committee and in the OT Ambassador Programs. In the last two years before I left I spend approximately 1000 hours researching and verifying my observations. I then concluded, wrote up my Doubt formula and resigned the church on August 7th 2009.

Although I was never involved in perpetrating or promoting any abuses myself, I did in fact support the organization and feel I didn't do enough to help stop the outpoints. This liability write-up addresses the period from September 2003 till I left.

This write-up follows the formula for getting through the condition of Liability as laid out by L. Ron Hubbard (LRH). As with the earlier Doubt write-up, this also follows the WOIM format (see the WOIM definition page).

Liability formula (LRH instructions in quotes and as main points in the list)

  1. "Decide who are one's friends"
       1.1. My friends are people of integrity who are willing to change for 
        what they consider better and help others to do the same.
        Note that this includes a great many people still in the Church of
        Scientology.
  2. "Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has
   pretended to be a part of despite personal danger"
       2.1. I pretended to be part of a group that worked for the greater
        good, for human rights, for free speech and for the liberation of
        free will. I shut my eyes to abuses in the Church of Scientology to
        foster the illusion that it aligned with my purpose of freeing the
        will of man by applying the technology of Scientology. The church
        is not true to its stated purposes. I have since my departure from
        the church helped others realize the same. My Doubt write-up was
        broadly published, resulting in many leaving the church. Several OTs
        read my write-up and decided to leave, creating a ripple effect that
        has woken up many. Any exact number is hard to come by - but my
        write-up has tipped the scale for at least 10 other OTs. The signal
        effect of the only OT 8 in Norway leaving the church has been
        significant. After my departure, I have been in communication with
        thousands of people through meetings, phone calls, e-mail and my
        Internet activities. 
        I put up a blog (http://elysianchakorta.wordpress.com) that has had
        about 100000 views since I started blogging three months ago. After
        the number of comments on my blog reached 500 per week, 
        I decided to set up a forum, The Scientology Forum 
        (http://www.scnforum.org) to promote open discussions of Scientology 
        in a safe environment moderated by OTs. After one week of operation it 
        had more than 100 registered members and more than 1000 posts. 
        Feedback shows that Scientologists do wake up to the "out ethics", 
        "out tech", "out admin" and the abuses in the church through reading 
        my blog and The Scientology Forum and deciding to participate in the 
        open exchange of viewpoints. 
        Through several newspaper articles, one radio show and a TV broadcast
        on the main Norwegian news show on prime time, my messages have
        reached more than a million people. I took a firm stand in accordance
        with my personal integrity despite the consequences I knew would
        come; Most of my Scientology friends have disconnected from me and 
        my family, my company lost three offices in Russia and there is an
        ongoing black PR campaign directed at me in the church.
  3. "Make up the damage one has done by personal contribution far beyond
   the ordinary demands of a group member"
      3.1. My blog and The Scientology Forum has served more than the
        purpose of delivering a blow to the offending practices by the Church
        of Scientology. The forum promotes rational exchange of viewpoints and
        may very well already be the primary venue for courteous and open
        discussions of Scientology on the Internet. I have as well
        contributed to hundreds of people that has contacted me for help and
        support in sorting out their own situation with the church.
  4. "Apply for re-entry to the group by asking the permission of each
   member of it to rejoin and rejoining only by majority permission, and
   if refused, repeating (2) and (3) and (4) until one is allowed to be a
   group member again"
      4.1. This part becomes tricky as the group I ask to rejoin is the
        collective of people who are willing to change for the better and
        help others to do the same. It is clearly impossible to reach the
        majority of such people on earth. I have thus decided to publish this
        Liability formula on The Scientology Forum and let people there
        decide the fate of my re-entry.


[unsticking the topic]

[Updated on: Tue, 24 November 2009 08:07]

Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1900 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant
Approved.

Welcome!

aka Div6 on ESMB.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1904 is a reply to message #1900 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Mark A. Baker
Messages: 193
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
I appreciate the candor you've attempted to bring to your efforts to publicize the problems with support for the Co$ and its practices.


Mark A. Bakerr
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1905 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Fancy
Messages: 65
Registered: November 2009
Location: Western New York
Orange
I now hope this post gets posted.

I voted yes and I liked the formula.

I am giving my posts another chance to show up here.

Barb
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1907 is a reply to message #1905 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Cinnamon
Messages: 2
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
Geir, you are an asset. Not a liability.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1908 is a reply to message #1905 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant
Approved! Thumbs Up
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1910 is a reply to message #1905 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Archangel
Messages: 310
Registered: November 2009
Green
Very cool Geir Smile

As always you have my support.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1922 is a reply to message #1910 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MostlyLurker
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
I approve, but frankly speaking you don't need anyone's approval to be true to yourself. People may not be in the 'groups' they pretend to be, and who am I to judge if you are up to any standard? Who set the standards anyway? The group of free people has no owner and in my view you are part of it. I appreciate your integrity and the courage shown so far. Keep going your way.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1933 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant
Approved!
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1936 is a reply to message #1922 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 21:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

MostlyLurker wrote on Sat, 21 November 2009 13:24
I approve, but frankly speaking you don't need anyone's approval to be true to yourself. People may not be in the 'groups' they pretend to be, and who am I to judge if you are up to any standard? Who set the standards anyway? The group of free people has no owner and in my view you are part of it. I appreciate your integrity and the courage shown so far. Keep going your way.


I was hoping for something like this. Thank you for a very intelligent response. If I need a wingman, I'll call you.

I agree completely. And I believe this liability condition may have as-is'ed by your appeal to integrity itself.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1937 is a reply to message #1936 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Jim Logan
Messages: 153
Registered: November 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Yellow
Geir,
I approve the formula step. On the need to do the condition vs. personal counsel, this formula is a 3D conditon formula as far as I can see. Hence, the interconnection with the group you've joined. It's not me saying 'you are OK'. It's you connecting to a group. Nice to have you in it!
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1938 is a reply to message #1937 ] Sat, 21 November 2009 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Axiom142
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2009
Location: Right here, right now!
Red
I have voted, but just so you can have your stats.

To be perfectly honest Geir, I don't think that you had any need to do a liability formula. You have had the courage and honestly to realise what was going on and then stand up and be counted. It cannot have been easy for you to make that irrevocable decision, and I'm sure that there are many others who are in the same position that you were in and know that things are very wrong, but have been unable to face making that same decision.

With your example, I hope that they too can find the courage to do what is right.

Axiom142
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1939 is a reply to message #1938 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Alex
Messages: 63
Registered: November 2009
Orange
Hi Geir,
I have studied ethics a lot and my reality is that your 3-D formula here would be with people that you KNOW exemplify the qualities you are seeking by doing this formula. Many who would sign it here or wherever may not be in the elite group that I feel you are in. By delineting who YOU feel is already in the group that you are trying to move into and asking them to sign your formula, I think will give you the most satisfaction. I do not consider myself to be in that group yet either but am moving towards it. I am still probably in the last few steps of Doubt so do not consider myself elligible do upgrade you into a group that I am not yet in. For what it is worth you have my admiration and support. I believe that you are moving into an elite group that only a handful of people may have acheived, so the group may be small. Peopel like Thoughtful, Jeff Hawkins etc. i think Marty is doing an incredible job but I don't know what condition he thinks he is in. He may have a bigger liability to do since he went into agreeement with DM for many years and committed some overts of his own but is making incredible progress in making up the damage.
ARC,
Alex
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1941 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  merris
Messages: 46
Registered: November 2009
Location: Out hitchin' rides across...
Red
Hi Geir!
Nice formula although not needed. Very Happy I considered you a scientologist in good standing the first time I lurked on your blog Nod You think for yourself and (IMO) have good clear judgement. You can "ride with my posse" anytime...(cowboy term for join my group) Grin ........Merris Cool .....................
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1942 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Panther
Messages: 11
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
"2.1. I pretended to be part of a group that worked for the greater good, for human rights, for free speech and for the liberation of free will."

Hang on a second. I don't mean to be pedantic but it is surely the CoS who is doing the pretending here. By being still a member you were not pretending to be part of that group. One assumes you were doing your best from within that group to acheive the above stated aims.

The group you were part of that lies, extorts, attacks critics no matter how well justified, practices people trafficking, organised fraud, forced abortions et al is pretending to be a Church.

Notwithstanding that, I approve your formula in spades. I appreciate what you do very much, and know many others do too - perhaps more than even you know.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1943 is a reply to message #1942 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

I understand your point of view.

My formula would have to be read as follows:
I pretended (assumed) to be working toward my goals of freedom (of choice, of speech, of expression) by being part of the CoS.
It failed - in part because I wasn't sharp enough to realize the pretense of the church (their campaign for human rights is the pinnacle of that pretense). And the pretense rubbed onto me to that degree.

I sent the formula to Jason Beghe and he corrected me on the point of using the word "pretense" here as it could be misunderstood. In my eagerness to get it done with, I posted the formula before I got his helpful advices.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1945 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 03:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  urq
Messages: 6
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
Thank you, Geir, for your formula, and for requesting agreement that you re-enter 'the group.'

I agree with the viewpoint that the important group that you should rejoin is the group of yourself honouring your own integrity.

There is no group that has any authority over your integrity to yourself, in my opinion. If you honour your own integrity to the fullest extent that you can (and you appear to be doing that), whose opinion on the subject matters?

What can matter to others is that you serve as an example. If you want my opinion on that, it is that you are doing it very well; thanks from me for being it.

Ken

Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1946 is a reply to message #1945 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant
sure, yes, of course
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1948 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 04:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  margaret
Messages: 1
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
Dear Geir.

I approve of your liability condition and wanted to communicate to you that I have tons of admiration and respect for you and your courage. I agree with all of your write ups and have very similar ideas and thoughts. This is sanity. Oh, by the way you and my daughter have the same birth date.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1956 is a reply to message #1948 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Rafael
Messages: 127
Registered: November 2009
Location: México
Yellow
Count me as one of the Scientologists you helped wake up.

The subject of Integrity is being taken to its correct proportions.
And is being mantained on its right place. (Everywhere).

I see you as source on Integrity.
I´m deciding to be thar too.
Here it seems so natural,
I´m certain I can not be myself without it.
This is clearing my purpose.

Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1957 is a reply to message #1948 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
Geir,

4.1. This part becomes tricky as the group I ask to rejoin is the collective of people who are willing to change for the better and help others to do the same.

Could you please define....better....and.....help.

Thank you
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1962 is a reply to message #1957 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

lasa wrote on Sun, 22 November 2009 08:10
Geir,

4.1. This part becomes tricky as the group I ask to rejoin is the collective of people who are willing to change for the better and help others to do the same.

Could you please define....better....and.....help.

Thank you


#4.1. refers to the decision in
#1.1. My friends are people of integrity who are willing to change for
what they consider better and help others to do the same.
Note that this includes a great many people still in the Church of
Scientology.

And help is anything that assists in moving something in its intended direction. And if you want the definition of "intended" in the last sentence, I bring you back to #1.1. where the source of that intention is the person himself.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1975 is a reply to message #1879 ] Sun, 22 November 2009 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant
I approve.

Immediately I started posting promotional info
on your forum I had two people write to me to see if they could be connected up to tech terminals, and by happy coincidsence they were right next to some.

I expect more of the same in the future, and it looks to me that you are reaching an audience I don't reach with my efforts elsewhere.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #1998 is a reply to message #1975 ] Mon, 23 November 2009 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lesj39
Messages: 1
Registered: November 2009
Location: Santa Monica, California
Infrared

I approve. I am honored to be a part of this important event.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2009 is a reply to message #1879 ] Mon, 23 November 2009 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Axiom
Messages: 5
Registered: November 2009
Location: Sweden
Infrared
Hello Geir,

Not only do I approve but also highly commend you for all your work you´ve done to further freedom in Ron´s spirit! Very Happy

ARC
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2011 is a reply to message #2009 ] Mon, 23 November 2009 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Cinnamon
Messages: 2
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
Hi Geir,

You said that your company lost three offices in Russia. I thought you mentioned that this was due to the disconnection policy? If so, can you file a complaint with the Russian authorities for that region? Have you done this already?

In the USA, if one corporation illegally interfered with the operation of another, then there would be grounds for legal action. I am not suggesting suing the CoS, but just filing the information with the Russian authorities. I think the Russian government would be interested in having some facts about the operation of the CoS.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2044 is a reply to message #1962 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
Thank you for answering my questions Geir.
I have another one for you if you don't mind....I am not trying to be a pain in the butt here...I am just wanting to clarify things for myself.

What is the intended direction of this collective group of people you are asking re-entry?
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2048 is a reply to message #2044 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

Exploration of truth for the mutual benefit of all.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2049 is a reply to message #1879 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

I set the poll up to last for three days. It got 100% approval. I am cool on this and moving forward. Action ahead Cool
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2051 is a reply to message #2049 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Archangel
Messages: 310
Registered: November 2009
Green
Cool Smile
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2054 is a reply to message #1936 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  MostlyLurker
Messages: 16
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
I may add that I accept you with open arms in the group of my friends. Very Happy
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2066 is a reply to message #2048 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
~ Exploration of truth for the mutual benefit of all.~

Wow.

HERE!

I have written and completed:
Confusion.
Treason.
Enemy.
Doubt.

Now I write and complete Liability.







Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2068 is a reply to message #1879 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
"I approve, but frankly speaking you don't need anyone's approval to be true to yourself. People may not be in the 'groups' they pretend to be, and who am I to judge if you are up to any standard? Who set the standards anyway? The group of free people has no owner and in my view you are part of it. I appreciate your integrity and the courage shown so far. Keep going your way."

To compliment this thought....from the words of a wise man.....

"Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others."

"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path."

"Your work is to discover your work and then with all your heart to give yourself to it."

Buddha
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2075 is a reply to message #2011 ] Tue, 24 November 2009 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

Cinnamon wrote on Mon, 23 November 2009 12:54
Hi Geir,

You said that your company lost three offices in Russia. I thought you mentioned that this was due to the disconnection policy? If so, can you file a complaint with the Russian authorities for that region? Have you done this already?

In the USA, if one corporation illegally interfered with the operation of another, then there would be grounds for legal action. I am not suggesting suing the CoS, but just filing the information with the Russian authorities. I think the Russian government would be interested in having some facts about the operation of the CoS.


I don't think that is a viable adventure Smile

The guys who were running the operations will simply claim they disconnected from me of their own volition.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2092 is a reply to message #1879 ] Wed, 25 November 2009 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  jason beghe
Messages: 8
Registered: November 2009
Location: malibu
Infrared
of course
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2115 is a reply to message #2092 ] Wed, 25 November 2009 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Alanzo
Messages: 648
Registered: November 2009
Location: A Very Large Cornfield
Blue
Come on, dude.

Are you kidding me?

You've created one of the first safe places for Scientologists and others to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;

Even the Church has never created that - EVER.

You are not in liability for things that you did not do, and for things you never would do - even if you were given the chance.

I am grateful for your presence, and for what you have done.

Thank you.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2368 is a reply to message #2115 ] Sat, 28 November 2009 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  bahs
Messages: 4
Registered: November 2009
Infrared
Geir I didn't see the yes or no button but I approve. I haven't always agreed with you on everything but that's easily overlooked because you've done far more than I have to ensure Scientology is here for the long term. You should probably skip this and go right to normal condition or better. Also, it's good to see you change your mind and adapt to new information. I've changed my mind after reading some of your posts.
icon5.gif  Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2434 is a reply to message #1879 ] Mon, 30 November 2009 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant

Yes, I approve, well done and I Sum my postulates to yours. I have too made errors, I have in my own way applied my conditions to this. I hope we can someday get together and I really would love to talk to you about the future.
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2445 is a reply to message #2434 ] Mon, 30 November 2009 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  anonymuse
Messages: 658
Registered: November 2009
Blue

If that's important to you, I approve it too, although that has never been an issue for me Smile Maybe it has never been an issue at ll, but it's your opinion that counts above all in this matter, as it is your condition. Welcome back to where I think you never got out of Very Happy
Re: Geir Isene's Libility write-up on the Church of Scientology [message #2888 is a reply to message #2115 ] Sat, 05 December 2009 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Anonymous Participant
Alanzo wrote on Wed, 25 November 2009 06:52
Come on, dude.

Are you kidding me?

You've created one of the first safe places for Scientologists and others to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;

Even the Church has never created that - EVER.

You are not in liability for things that you did not do, and for things you never would do - even if you were given the chance.

I am grateful for your presence, and for what you have done.

Thank you.


For once I totally agree with Alanzo.

From memory, step 8 of the Doubt condition formula says you suffer up the conditions IF ....

And I don't believe you ever did fall into a lowered condition because of your actions, at least not on this.
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