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Home » Scientology » Scientology philosophy » Adventure vs Total Freedom (Why does adventure outsell Nirvana?)
icon5.gif  Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1230] Sun, 15 November 2009 01:19 Go to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

People flock to the cinemas to experience a sense of adventure. Not only James Bond, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Hollywood caters for a wide audience with adventures of love, tragedy and everyday life. From Casablanca to Finding Nemo and Gandhi, there is the longing for excitement and for something different. Society is rife with antidotes for the dreaded boredom or the lack of game.

Thetans want a real game. Playstation can be a substitute for an exciting life. Live Action Role-Playing is as close as most people get. Some challenge death by throwing themselves out from cliffs. Others goes overboard and becomes mercenaries. Thetans want to create effects in a real game.

Have a look at what you want. What is the ultimate game for you?

Why then does Scientology sell "Total Freedom"? Total freedom is an all out Tone 40 - a "no games" condition.

The optimum level on the Tone Scale is 22 - Games. That's a tad above action and that is where adventures are experienced for real.

Most people would prefer the adventures of Indiana Jones over continual serenity on cloud 9, watering plants and playing the trumpet all day long.

L. Ron Hubbard says:
"There is only one way, really, to get into a state of living, and that's live! There is no substitute for an all-out, over-the-ramparts, howling charge against life. That's living. Living does not consist of sitting in a temple in the shadows and getting rheumatism from the cold stones. Living is hot, it's fast, it's often brutal! It has a terrific gamut of emotional reactions. If you are really willing to live, you first have to be willing to do anything that consists of living. Weird. But it's one of those awfully true things that you wonder why one has to say it. And yet it has to be said."

Living is the game at hand. What Scientology can offer is for you to be a better player of the game you want. And that is what Scientology should be selling.

My greatest win on OT VIII was a surge in adventure - being able to fully experience and enjoy the games I play. To play the game for real and not just coping in life. I used to be dreaming about more interesting games. Now there is action and participation everywhere I look. The quote above is the real deal. It is life as I know it. I want adventure more than total freedom. Working toward total freedom is exciting. I just think selling a nirvana of sorts carries with it a lot of unneeded expectations.

I believe people want adventure. Handling the abuses and out tech in the Church of Scientology is an adventure worth engaging.

Cross-posted from my blog
games, causation and tone level [message #1244 is a reply to message #1230 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 03:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zzzz
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2009
Location: earth
Orange
I agree fully. People need and want games, otherwise they wouldn't be hanging around this universe.

In my view, one can understand a lot about a person by observing the games they mock up and/or play.

If they dwell on little problems or matters with low-toned overtones, you know where they are at in respect to their causation and their tone level. I tend to minimise time spent on and with such people.

Though not Scientology-related, in my opinion the book "Illusions" by Richard Bach communicates the perspective of games nicely.

CRA
Re: games, causation and tone level [message #1253 is a reply to message #1244 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 04:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Chris
Messages: 650
Registered: November 2009
Location: Planet Earth last time I ...
Blue
Terrific post Geir. Cool
As one who occasionally skydives this post really spoke to me! Nod Grin
Re: games, causation and tone level [message #1285 is a reply to message #1253 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

I have 12 jumps myself Cool
Re: games, causation and tone level [message #1308 is a reply to message #1285 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Rafael
Messages: 127
Registered: November 2009
Location: México
Yellow
This one really speaks to me too!

For a long time, my senior goal as a Scientologist was the attainment of "Total Freedom",it was my first postulate when I found Scientology, but it came out of my complete despair and unwillingness to confront life at that time, and kept me in the wrong way for MANY YEARS. ¿Can you imagine a guy doing TR´S with the ultimate purpose of fleeing from this universe? well guys, that was me.(Funny, this just made me remember.....I participated in a Pilot TR´S course in Flag back in jannuary ´79 together with staff members from all over the world.I was a brand new Scientologist and staff and I was in the brand new HNED Auditor course at the Int.Training Org when Ron ordered that all people training in Tech at that time be put in that course because he found TR´S were out.We were told it was supposed to be done in a week or so.....Tapes of "passing" TR´S were being sent to Ron at his unknown location for final approval.....the first graduate(only one with direct Ron´s approval)came out in september, I was No 35 with David Mayo´s approval in oct. 7.The only tape I managed to have sent to Ron came back with this critique:"lacks prescence"....so it makes me wonder if some other guys could be in a situation similar to mine.........
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1326 is a reply to message #1230 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Jim Logan
Messages: 153
Registered: November 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Yellow
Geir,
Indeed, life is an 'all out over the ramparts howling charge' when it's lived and I've had some incredible adventures with doing just that. I'm having a blast on the one we're together on these days and it's just better all the time, mate. YEEEEEHHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1338 is a reply to message #1230 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Maria
Messages: 555
Registered: November 2009
Location: USA
Blue

I don't know about you guys. Don't you think you need to set a good example? Be careful? After all, weak-minded individuals might try these things at home and there could be terrible, terrible consequences! One must be responsible, and safety conscious, and always act conservatively, ensuring that no one comes to any harm, ever. And Geir, I can't believe you would jump out of a perfectly safe airplane!

LOL! Laughing Thumbs Up

Seriously now...

I had a hilarious experience on the interpersonal front. I was walking around at an event with two long time guy friends and we were laughing and joking and having a whale of a good time. It was all games and we all knew it.

The next day I received a knowledge report about how I was "leading on" married men with inappropriate levels of ARC and setting a bad example as an OT?!??? Didn't I know that one only acted with high ARC with one's own husband or wife?!???? And racka racka racka it went on. Gasp! -- I was walking between two MARRIED men with my arms linked in their arms and we were swinging our arms!!! Gasp! -- we TOUCHED each other!!!!!

Believe or not I was confronted with this in ethics. Not by either guy's wife (they both got copies, "just for their info") and with an overlaid sympathy for how they had been "jilted" so unkindly. Both wives knew me well and thought it was the most hilarious thing they had ever read in their lives!

So after that, when any of us hung together at events we walked about like nuns and monks so as not to disturb anyone! Ever attended an event as a nun? Strange experience, odd beingness. Still fun but not as much fun.
when good becomes bad [message #1339 is a reply to message #1338 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zzzz
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2009
Location: earth
Orange
Maria

I can empathize.

I lost track of the number of times I was reported on or verbally attacked for something good, which had twisted to be bad.

And I'm not talking solely about actions which were related to 2D or ARC . . . even when I came up with novel ways to disseminate Scn which were not contrary to policy.

I can understand a lot of craziness, low-toned behaviour and fear. But I have never been able to figure this one out (i.e. twisting good into bad).

CRA
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1340 is a reply to message #1338 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Jim Logan
Messages: 153
Registered: November 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Yellow
Maria,
I understand totally. I've got lots of similar experience. It occurs to me, so does LRH. I mean, you've read the 'KRs' written on this forum about him!

What is missed by lots is the absolute blast he had in life. What isn't missed by me, is the freedom he laid the way to for me to have as much.

Here's to 'cheap hussies' the world over!!(Wink)
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1344 is a reply to message #1230 ] Sun, 15 November 2009 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Maria
Messages: 555
Registered: November 2009
Location: USA
Blue
Yes, speaking of LRH, I think it is an absolute scream to try to portray him as a semi-deity, perfect and oh so serene.

I think LRH is one of those guys that broke the mold, did so deliberately and probably would be thigh-slapping and howling with laughter about somehow becoming Mother Theresa in the last 20 years!

I think he would have LOVED sky diving!
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1357 is a reply to message #1340 ] Mon, 16 November 2009 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Nom de Plume
Messages: 249
Registered: November 2009
Green
Himey wrote on Sun, 15 November 2009 23:20
Maria,
I understand totally. I've got lots of similar experience. It occurs to me, so does LRH. I mean, you've read the 'KRs' written on this forum about him!
Laughing

Himey further wrote...
What is missed by lots is the absolute blast he had in life. What isn't missed by me, is the freedom he laid the way to for me to have as much.
Wow. So true, Himey.



Himey:
Here's to 'cheap hussies' the world over!!(Wink)
Love it! Thumbs Up Very Happy



Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1358 is a reply to message #1344 ] Mon, 16 November 2009 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  altruistichedonist
Messages: 7
Registered: November 2009
Location: Canada
Infrared
To me, Games are the embodiment of the human condition. Playing them is the adventure and when the time arrives that one game is mastered, another appears, almost magically, to further challenge the human spirit to higher levels. Or to take us down new avenues that, until the previous game was mastered, were hidden from our perceptions.

For me, living with the intention of bringing joy out in others keeps that game going eternally during my life. I'm not always successful, but it challenges me to pursue new outcomes with more vigor.
For example, a friend of mine, a "redneck" welder, was getting down on life and consistently blaming others for the calamities in his life. I attempted many times to help him take responsibility for what occurs around him. But to little avail. So I changed the game with him and asked him to cut out of steel a squirrel. He did.
4 weeks in and he has produced 4 more squirrels, a duck, a fish, 2 storks, 6 pigeons, and he's considering a condor. He still blames but that has subsided due to awakened artist he's become in such a short time.
Now I'm not taking credit here. He's done that himself. But every once in a while it's sheer fun to gently nudge someone down another path and then delight in the path their walking.

I like playing "winning" games.
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1364 is a reply to message #1358 ] Mon, 16 November 2009 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  zzzz
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2009
Location: earth
Orange
altruistichedonist wrote on Mon, 16 November 2009 01:29
. . . Now I'm not taking credit here.

And why not? It is your cause which resulted in the effect.

Quote:
He's done that himself.

True, but that is the case with any (positive or negative) cash change.

In my opinion, there is no reason why he can't be 100% responsible for his progress, and for you to be 100% responsible as well.

CRA
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #1394 is a reply to message #1230 ] Mon, 16 November 2009 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Otto
Messages: 75
Registered: November 2009
Orange
Great message and nice POV Geir!

I just would add that anyways one is playing a game, the real thing (IMO) is how seriously are you playing your game? In the end how serious one can be? _DEATH_ Shocked
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #3066 is a reply to message #1230 ] Thu, 10 December 2009 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
Why then does Scientology sell "Total Freedom"? Total freedom is an all out Tone 40 - a "no games" condition.

So we get that choice.

Perhaps total freedom brings about a state wherein you can choose if you want to play a game, be in a no games condition and also be able to decide what game you want to play and with whom....possibilities are limitless.

You can still play games at Tone 40.
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #3087 is a reply to message #3066 ] Thu, 10 December 2009 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Infinity
Messages: 26
Registered: November 2009
Location: England
Red
"Why does adventure outsell Nirvana?"

Simple answer: because it's in our potential.

Remember also that total freedom is not freedom from, it's just freedom. Total Freedom to create and to experience. So it is not restricted to total freedom from all creation and experience, although if one is totally free in ones ability to create, then one can "not create" as well (nirvana).

You could say that nirvana is a static in native state not creating/postulating, whilst an operating thetan is a static who is using it's potential to create/postulate.

Also, use of the word "outsell" is an assumption. In the MEST universe, it seems that way, it seems like there are nearly an infinity of statics having adventures. But isn't it likely that there is an infinity of statics not on adventures in any universe, in nirvana?

Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #3368 is a reply to message #1230 ] Tue, 15 December 2009 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Participant
I know what you mean and I'd like to have it more stably, it comes and goes too often. Do you find that after OT VIII, you see things as adventures more often?

There's an LRH quote involving being willing to crush or be crushed by the universe, it's a great one to post if someone has it on their computer.
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #3370 is a reply to message #3368 ] Tue, 15 December 2009 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  isene
Messages: 426
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa
Green

Anonymous Participant wrote on Tue, 15 December 2009 00:21
I know what you mean and I'd like to have it more stably, it comes and goes too often. Do you find that after OT VIII, you see things as adventures more often?


I sure do Smile

That is one of my great wins from doing VII and VIII.
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #5335 is a reply to message #3370 ] Sat, 09 January 2010 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
Bill Ryan interview:
(it's a bit long but worth the watch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic70cVN5IdQ
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #5347 is a reply to message #3066 ] Sat, 09 January 2010 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
  Chris
Messages: 650
Registered: November 2009
Location: Planet Earth last time I ...
Blue
lasa wrote on Wed, 09 December 2009 15:59
Why then does Scientology sell "Total Freedom"? Total freedom is an all out Tone 40 - a "no games" condition.

So we get that choice.

Perhaps total freedom brings about a state wherein you can choose if you want to play a game, be in a no games condition and also be able to decide what game you want to play and with whom....possibilities are limitless.

You can still play games at Tone 40.

Ron said that the best way to enslave a man would be to promise him total freedom.
DM and RTC added the "Bridge to Total Freedom" instead of the "Bridge to a New World".
Sorry if it sounds like Verbal Tech but I don't have the exact lecture on my Hard Drive.
Smug
Re: Adventure vs Total Freedom [message #5376 is a reply to message #5347 ] Sun, 10 January 2010 00:09 Go to previous message
  lasa
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2009
Yellow
I will not and never will buy the Bridge to "Total Freedom" Besides, bridges are built so one can cross over or get through to the other side "from above".

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