Today's Messages (off)
| Unanswered Messages (on)
| Forum: The Scientology Forum |
|---|
| Topic: A compilation of debating illogic? |
|---|
| A compilation of debating illogic? [message #12281] |
Tue, 27 April 2010 15:33 |
  |
isene
Messages: 1015
Registered: November 2009
Location: Land of Santa |
Indigo |
|
|
It would be interesting to compile a list of actual illogic used in the debates on this forum. It could be useful as a place to refer newcomers so that they can learn from the mistakes of others before they make the same mistakes themselves.
Any takers?
|
|
| | Topic: Secure forum |
|---|
| Secure forum [message #11211] |
Fri, 02 April 2010 10:10 |
 |
Otto
Messages: 84
Registered: November 2009 |
Orange |
|
|
Wishlist: add a layer of protection by enabling secure connections to this forum please.
Some logic: It prevents against "listeners" on the network, computing cycles are cheap now, SSL certificates are cheap now too, no other forum will be as secure as this one 
|
|
| | Topic: Glitch in the Matrix? |
|---|
| Glitch in the Matrix? [message #1630] |
Wed, 18 November 2009 03:13 |
  |
Nom de Plume
Messages: 325
Registered: November 2009 |
Green |
|
|
Hi Geir, others...
Tonight is the third time I've found people set on "Ignore", with their messages hidden, which I never requested.
It seems to happen (trigger?) whenever I am reviewing all messages from some particular poster. And it even locks out other posters also besides the one which I am reviewing.
Nom
|
|
| | Topic: Adding mod edit tags to moved posts |
|---|
| Adding mod edit tags to moved posts [message #444] |
Mon, 09 November 2009 17:51 |
| |
Obscene dog
Messages: 203
Registered: November 2009
Location: Tehran |
Green |
|
|
Can you pretty please add mod tags to any posts that you move?
Something like the following:
Mode edit this post moved from <insert thread title>
I think I've seen a few posts being moved but, without tags, it can be difficult to tell. One of my own posts was moved and I thought I had posted in the wrong forum. Just a little heads up would make it easier to follow discussions without having to wonder where the posts went. Since posts don't appear immediately I think this would be a very helpful thing to consider implementing.
|
|
| | Forum: Whatever |
|---|
| Topic: KNOWABLE AND UNKNOWABLE |
|---|
| KNOWABLE AND UNKNOWABLE [message #15727] |
Sun, 05 September 2010 12:52 |
| |
Vinaire
Messages: 1082
Registered: November 2009
Location: Tampa Bay |
Indigo |
|
|
Please refer to http:// vinaire.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/essay-2-something-and-nothi ng/Essay #2: SOMETHING AND NOTHINGEssay #2: SOMETHING AND NOTHING 0.6449490704670134.
When there is something, we can look at it and know it. When there is nothing then there is nothing to look at and to know.
Thus, we associate the idea of knowable with "something;" and the idea of unknowable with "nothing." We notice that there cannot be "something" that is also unknowable (with all due respects to Kant).
Knowable is that which is manifested. Unknowable is that which is not manifested.
CONSIDERATION AND BELIEF
Matter is something manifested. Energy is something manifested. Space and time are also things that are manifested. We see and experience them all around us. They all are knowable because we can look at them and know them.
Conversely, we know and perceive these things the way we consider them to be. A table out there is sensed by us in the form of impulses travelling to our brain through various sense channels. We interpret those impulses as "table" because we hold a consideration of what a table should be like. If we consider differently then we shall interpret those impulses differently, and we shall perceive what is out there differently.
If there is inconsistency between what we believe and how something actually appears to us then that belief is more like a wishful thinking that is obscuring the actual consideration we hold deeply inside.
We know and perceive things based on our considerations. The actual considerations may get buried under, or obscured by, our beliefs.
Thus, a consideration is actually what is manifested as something we perceive. We hold such considerations very deeply in our minds. These considerations are knowable but they may get buried under beliefs.
A belief is a "layer of thought" that may cover basic consideration. Beliefs, thus, color how we perceive things. Beliefs may get shattered and reveal the underlying consideration. This experience can be quite shocking indeed.
In themselves, thoughts, beliefs and considerations are also manifestations just like matter, energy, space and time. Being manifestations they are knowable.
Thoughts, beliefs and considerations are also themselves knowable.
NOTHING IS EVER FIXED
Mathematics is very interesting in that it uses consistency of thought to predict the nature of knowledge. Mathematics tells us that "something" may be divided endlessly (see Going Beyond Counting). Therefore, it is not possible to say that there is something inherently permanent or unchangeable.
Hence, we cannot say for sure that
(1) We have arrived at the smallest, indivisible particle of matter that has been sought for in Physics.
(2) That there is a smallest distance in space that is no longer divisible.
(3) That there is a smallest interval in time that is no longer divisible.
So, in all this infinitely wide universe of manifestations, there is nothing that, we can say for sure, can never change. Anything may be divided further. There is no inherently unchanging manifestation. Anything knowable is also changeable no matter how small or large; or how simple or complex.
Matter, energy, space, time, consideration, belief and thought are all knowable and changeable. There is nothing that is unknowable and unchangeable.
WHAT LIES BEHIND MYSTERY?
A mystery is supposed to be unknowable. Actually a true mystery is that which must for ever remain a mystery. One is not supposed to know what lies behind it.
But a mystery is not unknowable. A true mystery is simply made of the consideration, "Nothing can be found out about so and so." As one agrees to this consideration about an area, that area then appears as a complete mystery. All knowledge gets buried behind the consideration.
We first agree to the consideration that nothing can be found out about God. From that moment on God appears as a mystery to us.
But the moment one recognizes that one is holding the consideration, "Nothing can be found out about so and so," one regains the power to discard that consideration. And as one does that, the area suddenly becomes knowable.
Mystery is a consideration that can be known.
.
|
|
| | Topic: Recent New accounts/early July 2010 |
|---|
| Recent New accounts/early July 2010 [message #14630] |
Mon, 05 July 2010 18:08 |
| |
claireswazey
Messages: 1084
Registered: November 2009 |
Indigo |
|
|
|
Due to a software peculiarity, two or three new accounts were denied, rather than approved. If you've applied for a new account in the last few days and it's not there, please reapply.
|
|
| | Topic: Oslo, Flom, Bergan, Copenhagen, Helsinki & Stockholm |
|---|
| Oslo, Flom, Bergan, Copenhagen, Helsinki & Stockholm [message #13709] |
Tue, 08 June 2010 02:57 |
| |
Vinaire
Messages: 1082
Registered: November 2009
Location: Tampa Bay |
Indigo |
|
|
Here is my son's viewpoint of our trip to Europe this summer. Enjoy this slideshow.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vishallllll/sets/72157624223904 004/
In Oslo, our wonderful guide was Geir.
In Copenhagen, we had our family.
In Helsinki, we had another friend.
In Stockholm we were on our own.
It was a wonderful trip overall. The most striking views were of the fjords when going from Flom to Bergan.
.
|
|
| | Topic: Optical Illusion vid |
|---|
 Optical Illusion vid [message #10992] |
Sat, 27 March 2010 08:51 |
| |
fnx3
Messages: 249
Registered: February 2010 |
Green |
|
|
I just viewed this & yes indeed it certainly is difficult to not see it as it really is ~
Charlie Chaplin Optical Illusion
|
|
| | Topic: Anderson Cooper 360: "Scientology: A History of Violence" |
|---|
| Anderson Cooper 360: "Scientology: A History of Violence" [message #10819] |
Wed, 24 March 2010 04:55 |
|
Anderson Cooper 360In a special series beginning Monday, March 29th, CNN's Anderson Cooper 360° takes a close and revealing look at the leadership of the worldwide church of Scientology. The week-long series, Scientology: A History of Violence, will examine allegations that Scientology leader David Miscavige has for years beaten, kicked and choked top members of the church. These are allegations the church aggressively denies, saying violence from inside came from those making the claim.
Anderson Cooper will speak with former, high ranking members from the Church's inner circle, who says the David Miscavige not only carried out, but encouraged the culture of violence at the highest levels of the church management. Cooper will also speak with members who claim extreme hardships, and some say intimidation, the church imposes on anyone who decides to leave and speak out.
Scientology: A History of Violence will air at 10pm ET on CNN and will also air on CNNInternational. Anderson Cooper 360° airs weeknights on CNN at 10pm ET.
CNN?s Anderson Cooper 360 Explores the Church of Scientology?s Leadership - News on News
This has been rumored to be in the works or shelved for about a year.
As a few of you may know, I have a news background, and there is no better person to put up against Tommy Davis than Anderson Cooper. Anderson has no fear. He is going to eat him for lunch.
And since it's over five nights and we know many defectors are openly indie now, there is a really good chance that someone will actually finally address TD's "You can't be a Scientologist outside the church" line.
Somewhere, John Sweeney's probably ROTFL.
|
|
| | Topic: IFA Press release |
|---|
| | Topic: You Can Help |
|---|
| You Can Help [message #3294] |
Mon, 14 December 2009 00:27 |
 |
svetka812
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2009
Location: San Jose CA |
Red |
|
|
This is a link to the website of an orphanage house Anisimovo - located in Russia, far from any city. You can help those kids and your help will be highly appreciated. Children need not only financial support (clothes, birthday or Christmas presents, fixes of the house were they live - roof, windows, broiler for the hot water etc.) but also attention and friendship of the grown-up fellow. You can pick up a child from the list (pictures) and stay in touch. That helps too.
Website is in progress, transferring data from closed type of forum. It updates dally.
[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 03:15] by Moderator
|
|
| | Forum: Church of Scientology |
|---|
| Topic: Job description: A Church of Scientology Party-line Toer |
|---|
| | Topic: Children in the Church of Scientology's GULAGs |
|---|
| Children in the Church of Scientology's GULAGs [message #12805] |
Tue, 11 May 2010 06:18 |
| |
Valkov
Messages: 1336
Registered: November 2009 |
Indigo |
|
|
Sea Org Children: The "Final Solution"
"All the problems of the world -- child labor, corruption - are symtoms of a spiritual disease; lack of compassion." Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama
My parents joined the SO in 1980. Before that I spent a day with my mother and father each week. As things were in the seventies, my parents worked all day in a class IV org.
At the beginning of their SO career, things were alright. We had breakfast and dinner together every night. I remember there were these cooks in PBC (Pac Base Crew) in the morning, who would ask you how you wanted your eggs, and they'd make them in front of you, super fast.
We had an hour for family time, in addition to the 45-minute dinnertime, all of which was spent with family. In PAC we'd walk up Vermont to Thrifty's (now Rite-Aid), and get a double scoop of ice cream for 30 cents. Other times we'd go to Barnsdale Park and hang out or walk south on Vermont and get a doughnut or something.
The Cadet Org was an adventure, though. We used to work all day after school. We even had some playtime which was spent playing warball at the ATA (Apollo Training Academy, a school that the kids in PAC attended located across Fountain Ave from Bridge Publications).
In 1983 I did my EPF. I was eleven at the time and the materials were, to say the least, way too difficult for a child. I spent seven months on the EPF. It was designed to take three weeks! I was fortunate that, at the time, families had their own berthing and I lived with my mother and father. This made everything worthwhile. I saw my mom and dad at night for a little while before going to sleep, and that precious little contact with my parents would make a world of difference.
I remember when Benjamin Rinder was born in the Fountain Building. I also remember when many kids were brought into this world and how incredibly theta that was. And while conditions were far from ideal, families in the early eighties were encouraged to have kids.
There was the CEO (Cadet Estate Org) that took care of babies and small kids. It was far from ideal, but it really could have been perfected as opposed to destroying it altogether. The CEO was demolished by the PAC RPF in 1990 to make way for the Celebrity Center event structure. There were some great plus points with it. Babies got their barley formula and so on.
There were many outpoints with this system, too, but it was better than no system and no children.
At the time of LRH's death in 1986 (I had been in the SO since 1983), I was in CMO. In '87 family time was cancelled. This was a huge upset, I was still a kid after all.
After that, all the way to the present, I have had a grand total of ONE day off with my mom and dad. That is ONE DAY in 27 years.
There are many people who really never got to know their own parents, as they spent so little time with them! If you watch Jenna Miscavige's ABC interview, this resonates in her words.
I am no longer in the Sea Org and today my wife and I have a baby. I have spent more time with my baby than all the time my parents ever spent with me. And while they were good parents and meant well, they did not get to see much of me at all.
But that was only the beginning. Far worse was yet to come.
Beyond 1984
One of the single most suppressive "policies" of the Church of Scientology came out on September 28, 1986, as Flag Order No. 3905. It was not written by LRH, but by Guillaume Lesevre, ED Int who acted on the order of David Miscavige. This was the infamous Flag Order that stopped Sea Org couples from having children.
[Note from Thoughtful: Haydn James (T Paine) was the Commanding Officer PAC Base Crew at the time. ED Int wrote to him and gave him the problem of how to handle the growing number of kids in the Sea Org (400 in PAC and climbing) plus elsewhere. He said Sea Org resources shouldn't be used for the raising of kids (which if the Geico Caveman were told that, he would say indignantly, "Why not?") and furthermore Guillaume said since Haydn was responsible for one of the largest concentrations of Sea Org kids he could solve the problem.
[It was clear from Guillaume's comm that he was not the originator of the cycle. Plus all later evidence regarding kids and families in the Sea Org (canceling of family time, etc.) showed the origination point was David Miscavige without any shadow of a doubt.
[Anyway Haydn made up his analysis and proposed an issue. ED Int (aka, Miscavige) shot it down and forced ED Int to write his own -- the Sept 86 issue. No doubt DM set the direction and the boundaries.
[Haydn's analysis showed a lot of kids in PAC were from parents on minor posts and who produced little -- some had up to 5 kids; what was missing was the normal function of routine Fitness Boards. Haydn argued that producing Sea Org members working 70 or 80 hours a week for $30 pay were valuable and that the Sea Org should foot the bill to help them raise their kids. Non producers could be eased back into civil life by use of existing and standard means -- Fitness Boards.
[Obviously Miscavige didn't like Haydn's idea at all.]
On April 3rd, 1991 the issue was reissued under Guillaume's name shortly after he sent his two beautiful children to live with their grandmother in Italy, never to see them again. (You can see the full issue at the bottom of this article).
This Flag Order is, I believe, one of the single most vicious policies the "church" has ever adopted. Not only did it denigrate and degrade the institution of marriage, it resulted in the neglect and abuse of hundreds of children, the outright abortion of hundreds more. Here's a quote from that horribly-written issue:
"The Sea Org is not set up to handle or take care of children. Sea Org members getting [sic] children has resulted in an unpractical burden on the Sea Org units and inhibited their efficiency. No SO installation has the job of making SO members for twenty years from now." Flag Order 3905-1 CHILDREN, SEA ORG MEMBERS AND SEA ORG ORGS, 3 April 1991
"GETTING children"????!! "Making SO members for twenty years from now"? This is the language used to virtually abolish the second dynamic?
It is unbelievable! The results from this: Hundreds of forced abortions. The horrors of "persuaded" abortions and the horrific stress and guilt on mothers-to-be. But it gets worse. Miscavige and Guillaume with a clever twist of phrase turned the action of having children into a "crime" to be "hidden" in secrecy:
"... withholding the fact that there are pregnant SO members in the org, will result in a Committee of Evidence on the org PCO, Dir Routing and Personnel, HAS, Supercargo and Captain/CO as well as the SO members concerned."
Yes, let's Comm-Ev pregnant women!
David Miscavige and Guillaume Lesevre, the shame of all those young lives never lived is upon you! No wonder you Guillaume find it impossible to throw off the yoke of Miscavige and come out of the Hole. And you said Marty had a "violent streak"? With one order you virtually murder how many children?
"The overt doth speak loudly in accusation, Shakespeare re-written." LRH, Study Tapes, Lecture #2
From then on many, many men and women in the Sea Org were denied their human right to have children. This vicious policy denies families and degrades marriage and violates one of the most basic LRH principles: that we each survive through eight Dynamics which includes the having and rearing of children.
What could possibly justify the eradication of children you ask?
Oooh, lack of "efficiency"! Plus, the Sea Org was not "set up to handle or take care of children." Huh? Every human being is set up to create children. If you don't believe it, just look between your legs.
Does this start to sound just a tad "Third Reich" to anyone?
Instead of just throwing togerther some fitness boards, fixing up an org board, firing a mission or two... just eradicate all Sea Org children. It's David Miscavige's Final Solution: exterminate every fetus since fetuses are small and cannot fight back. Why go to the trouble of gassing people like Adolf Hitler when you can just take care of them when they are only about an inch long?
I am not looking for sympathy here. These are simply facts. But woven through these facts is the plight of hundreds or even possibly thousands of children who really deserved much better. Kids need love, patience and care. Perhaps this sounds a little soft, but it isn't. To deny this in families is cruelty of the first order.
Imprisoning Children
Like most marriages in the Sea Org, when my father moved up the org board, he was coerced into divorcing my mother. I was fifteen at the time and it was a huge loss.
Shortly thereafter I got into trouble and was assigned to the RPF.
I was sixteen when I was in the RPF and I had lots of company! There were about 40 minors at the time in the PAC RPF, all of whom were unjustly assigned. But I was a good student. I was a good worker, as most minors were. I spent 2 years in the RPF! Many kids spent much more time in the "R" as it was called.
A key injustice of the RPF (besides being there at all), is that if you're a minor you have no choice but to do the program. You cannot leave the Sea Org, as your parents are in the Sea Org.
So, this is false IMPRISONMENT of CHILDREN. This is Final Solution #2: If you can't kill them when they are a fetus, imprison them when they are a child.
I remember one occasion where a young man who worked in the same org as me announced at the dinner table, "I don't like RPFers because they're f__k-ups."
One month later, he was in the RPF, and one month after that, he blew.
Kids didn't have the luxury of escaping/blowing. Children toiled doing the same labor as adults from 6:00 AM 'till 5:00 PM. And, same as adults, any kind of infraction was immediately punished by running laps or doing push-ups, or worse yet, getting assigned to the RPF's RPF, where one slaved in "Rat's Alley" all day and well into the night.
I suddenly found myself there, and I remember being covered with the horrific smell of rotten food slime. And I do mean covered! I thought, "What the hell am I doing here?" But, then again, I had no choice.
In the RPF there is absolutely no time off and no liberties (read my other article on the RPF in this site). There were no exceptions for children. In fact, as we were smaller, some children were brutalized by some adults (there was a small group of people in the RPF with their share of psychotic tendencies).
At 5 PM we had dinner and "redemption" time and lights out at 11 PM. This was tough but we got some auditing and I did experience gains from auditing despite the fact that I needed more rest and food. Despite the fact that I did not want to be there. Despite the fact that I saw very little of my mom and dad. Despite the fact that the RPF I/C was a total Nazi, and despite the fact that I had been unjustly assigned to the RPF in the first place. And despite the fact that no child should be forced to do hard labor.
The application of actual Scientology gave me some very big wins on the RPF. Those were the last wins I had with Scientology during my career in the Sea Org, however.
Unbelievably, life would get even worse than my 2 years in the PAC RPF.
Like I said though, unbelievably, the Sea Org would get far worse.
At the Int Ranch, kids worked for most of the day. Parents had very little time with their kids. It was mainly hygiene-time on Sunday mornings. But kids (from ages 4 on up), spent their nights in dorms at the ranch.
Many kids missed their mothers greatly and were restimulated in this environment. It was militaristic in that there were musters like at Gold, and kids would have to do heavy MEST work without a choice.
Sea Org children never had a choice to be there at all. This violates the very core of Scientology and the philosophy of self-determinism.
As does Flag Order 3905.
If your blood isn't running cold by now consider this: There was an instance when Justin Miscavige and Matt Price accidentally injured a staff member at the Ranch and Miscavige assigned them the condition of "Child."
This was considered far worse than Confusion. (Goes to show you how he felt about children). In his book, Science of Survival, LRH explained what a low-toned person does to the second dynamic:
At the tone level of Covert Hostility you can expect: "Use of children for sadistic purposes"
At the tone level of Anger you can expect "Brutal treatment of children"
"At 1.5 we enter the band of brutal treatment of children, heavy corporal punishment, the forcing of the child into a mold with pain, breaking his dramatizations, upset about his noise or clutter.
"At 1.1 on the Tone Scale there may be two reactions to children. There may be an actual and immediate desire for children as a manifestation of sex, but we also may have the use of children for sadistic purposes. And we may find both of these in the same individual. We have a long-term general neglect of children, with an occasional sporadic interest in them. We have very little thought for the child's future or the culture in which the child will grow up." -- LRH, Science of Survival
And there's more:
"It is notable, as one glances down this column, that an interest in children includes not only in the bearing of the child, but in the child's well-being, happiness, mental state, education and general future. We may have a person on the 1.1 level who seems very anxious to produce a child. Very possibly this person is following an engram command to have children. Once the child is born, we may have, in this 1.1 bracket, an interest in it as a plaything, or a curiosity. But following this, we get general neglect and thoughtlessness about the child and no feeling whatsoever about the child's future or any effort to build one for it. We get careless familial actions, such as promiscuity, which will tear to pieces the family security upon which this child's future depends. Along this band, the child is considered a thing, a possession.
"A half a tone above this, in the anger band, the child is a target for the dramatizations which the individual does not dare execute against grown-ups in the environment -- a last-ditch effort to be in command of something. Here we have domination of the child with a constant warping of its character.
"The whole future of the race depends upon its attitude towards children..." -- L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival
Call it what it is: Human Trafficking
In about 1996, the Cadet Org and the Int Ranch were disbanded and all children were suddenly and ruthlessly sent thousands of miles away to be posted in orgs. The point being that, hundreds of children were robbed of a childhood, their families, and in most cases, their education.
I have been making this argument for years. I refuse to accept Miscavige's medieval prohibitions which redefine a "child" as a criminal act punishable by Comm Ev and banishment.
I'd love to hear Tommy Davis -- that wicked and braying jack ass -- trying to hee-haw out some kind of an "acceptable truth" designed whitewash his boss's felonious behavior. He can't tell the real truth because that is punished in the "church."
Written by Arthur Doyle
Article posted on www.scientology-cult.com - a pro-scientology site.
|
|
| | Topic: Church of Scientology GULAGs |
|---|
| Church of Scientology GULAGs [message #12803] |
Tue, 11 May 2010 06:06 |
| |
Valkov
Messages: 1336
Registered: November 2009 |
Indigo |
|
|
Here is another article from www.scientology-cult.com, a site definitely worth readng. Unlike what you might think, it is a pro-scientology site.
Why Church Members Keep Lying
by BACK TO LIFE
When I left the Church I decided to never look back. Since I had spent the better part of my life in what felt like a complete insane asylum and, even worse, since I had not helped one single human being in at least 10 years, I decided not to spend one more day of my life regurgitating the subject. The fact that I am free to help others and be of value to humanity is far more important to me than putting things right with the Church.
However, reading and watching the media on the subject has made me furious because of the way the Church is denying all allegations that are made against David Miscavige.
I am fortunate to know people of different professions, ages and beliefs through my job. People who have never been involved with Scientology. They all say the same thing: that it is impossible that so many people are now coming out and telling the same story without any truth to the matter -- and that if just a fraction of what they are saying is true then the Church needs a major overhaul. They are outraged that the Church is trying to intimidate those who are speaking out. I just watched people who I used to know and who I personally saw being slapped, punched, sleep deprived, humiliated and more by David Miscavige, deny it all on national TV in front of millions of people. It not only infuriated me, it made me wonder what drives someone to become so mindless? What will be next? Will they drink cyanide-laced Kool Aid? I should know at least part of the answer, because I was there for over 20 years.
I also had this idea that because I myself was part of the yelling, shoving and threatening of people I didn't really have much of a right to blame others. In retrospect that view is so wrong and it's probably one of the biggest factors that people don't speak out. While there was always shouting, threats and heated arguments in the management of Scientology, as long as I was part of it, there is simply no doubt that the level of violence and atrocities has escalated to an all time high under the regime of David Miscavige. It's the first time I myself saw people being slapped, slammed to the floor, strangled and beaten as well as locked up and ridiculed to such extent that it became actual torture.
So, to join the many who are speaking out, here are some of the things I personally witnessed while working for almost 20 years at the Int Base of the Church of Scientology. These are the human rights violations that I saw with my own eyes while there. I am sure that most of this has been covered by others, so this is simply my way of "joining the forces" and affirming that what others have written up is indeed the truth. If you worked at the Int Base for a long time there is probably not much you don't already know in my write-up. It's written mostly so that a novice or non-Scientologist can understand what was actually happening. Maybe it can help someone not on that Base or who is uncertain about the validity of all allegations against the Church to understand what is going on.
PHYSICAL ABUSE
In terms of physical abuse, I saw David Miscavige (will call him DM from now on) hit several executives which included slapping, punching, strangling and throwing objects at them. I saw him banging the heads of Marc Yager and Guillaume Lesevre (the Commanding Officer and Executive Director of the Church) together repeatedly until Guillaume's ear was bleeding. I saw him slap Ray Mithoff (Senior Case Supervisor Int) several times over the head and ear until he cried out in pain. After that beating DM left the office where we were sitting only to come back in 10 minutes. He had brought his wallet and pulled out a $20 bill and gave it to Ray saying: "Take this, I shouldn't have done that."
I saw him throw a large, solid glass ashtray at Jason Bennick (then an exec in Gold) with full force which only missed Jason because he ducked. I saw him leap across a conference room table where at least 30 Int Executives were sitting and strangle and punch Mike Rinder several times in the face and on the body. I also saw him leap at Jeff Hawkins (then in Marketing) and slap and punch him. I was also there when he repeatedly slapped Marc Headley (then staff of Gold) in the face. These are some examples and there are many more.
HUMILIATION AND VERBAL ABUSE
I also saw DM humiliate staff repeatedly. At one point he had certain execs (Marc Yager, Norman Starkey, Hara O'Hare, Ray Mithoff) confined to tents with cold water showers and some hole in the ground as the "toilet." There were no separate allowances made for Hara who was a woman. I know of this because DM boasted about it in meetings. In 2004, I was part of the group of people (circa 50) who were confined to their office spaces in a trailer. We slept under desks and left the building only to take showers in the AM. The building was heavily guarded with no chance to "escape". In fact DM specifically told Guillaume (ED International) and Marc (Commanding Officer CMO International) in one meeting that: "If you blow I am going to come after you with everything I have and you know that I have connections."
The average sleep schedule was 4-5 hours nightly, sometimes less, for months. During this time period I witnessed DM meeting with Tom Devocht who was in charge of the collective group in the trailers and tell him to "work over" people who he (DM) had called out in meetings. The "working over" consisted of slapping, punching and pummeling of people. DM knew of this. I saw him at least twice witnessing it from a distance. I saw at least 2 women (Angie Lemoine and Melita Guider) being repeatedly slapped in the face and told to "fess up" to their bad deeds. I saw the then Marketing Exec, Dave Bloomberg, being 'pummeled" by 2 other guys (Tom Devocht and someone else, I can't recall) and having to be driven to the hospital with a bruised rib.
In terms of verbal abuse and foul language it is impossible to count how many times I heard him belittle, berate, swear at and call staff names. I know that I was personally called both "bitch" and "slut" by him and also heard him call other female staff "c--t". The name-calling of females was much more rare than the men who he sometimes called all possible slang-words for the male organ, accused of being "fags" and more. The foul language spread all over that base like wildfire. People were saying "f--king" every second sentence, swearing, yelling at each other, etc. I can't say this entirely came from DM but he was sure setting the example when it came to manners and proper language. I was sort of stunned when I got out in the world so to speak that people generally weren't swearing at all and it took me a while to shake the habit.
DESTABILIZING STAFF
I was there and can confirm the "Musical Chairs" event where DM played music and had all Base Execs fight for chairs to see who would remain on their posts and who would be shipped away to the worst continent possible. It was ridicule all the way including bringing in spouses for good-byes, DM pretending to order ridiculous uniforms to be designed for all who would be leaving, etc. However, I believe that this event was a microcosm of constant destabilization of the personnel who worked at the Int Base. DM had his wife and assistant Shelly run a constant "personnel project" which went on for at least 10 years on and off. Large boards were made of the organization boards for the Base (RTC, CMO Int, Exec Strata, Gold, etc.) and Int and RTC staff were made to put together proposals of who should be in which organizations. This was done by marathon (sometimes a day and night long) meetings with photos of the personnel on the Base being moved around on the boards. It was solely based on opinion and the staff themselves were often pulled in and showed the boards which resulted in rumors and people never feeling safe on their posts. As an example, I once counted that I had been proposed for 20 different posts on these boards on and off just in two weeks!
EMBEZZLEMENT
There was another broad, financial situation that I know of, having worked in most of the organizations on the base. In Gold (the lowest org on the totem pole) the staff were sometimes not being paid for months on end, an unbearable situation where some staff could not even afford to buy hygiene materials such as soap, underwear and tampons (believe it or not). In 1992 or 93 the staff in RTC were to be given yearly bonuses. Most staff were getting bonuses to the tune of $5,000 - $7,000. It didn't feel right when people in lower orgs were starving, literally, so some of us took it up with the then Internal Executive, Laurisse Stuckenbrock. (Laurisse later became COB's Communicator). We were told that it was out of the question to decline the bonus. Those senior to us would get approximately triple that amount and then DM an even bigger bonus, of course. If those lower in the organization didn't accept their bonuses DM's would look odd in the eyes of the IRS, is what she told us. The difference between DM's lifestyle and those around him was staggering. He had 5-8 personal staff taking care of all his needs. Oh, and his staff had to be young and good looking, something his wife/assistant Shelly constantly told us RTC staff when we were made to help her find staff for his office.
He wore whatever he wanted including tailor-made suits, shoes, etc. that cost thousands of dollars, more than the average staff member would make in a whole year. He ate whatever he pleased; I sat at his table for a while and when he was tired of the food his personal chef made he would just order that food be brought in from restaurants. He flew first class, of course, and drove posh cars. The staff or execs of his org, RTC, got involved in his personal matters in many ways. Example: His wife Shelly had all the RTC 'girls' stay up almost one whole night writing cards and putting together a surprise " presentation" for him of a brand new car she bought for him. He was showered with gifts for his birthday and Xmas; hundreds of gifts amounting to a value of many thousands of dollars. And, yes, money was collected for these gifts from the staff in Gold, and other orgs, who sometimes had no pay for months. Example of gifts: sound-systems, expensive cameras, suits, italian leather shoes, a custom made bicycle, watches and more.
He was in another league altogether and so he couldn't possibly understand what the general staff were going through or feeling because he was utterly detached from it.
CHILD ABUSE
I think of some of us who departed that Base sometimes still view things through the eyes of an insider instead of a decent human being on the outside. At least I sometimes did. However, by distancing myself from the insanity for many years now I have begun to think clearly. While violence in a Church is absolutely unforgivable, most people luckily do survive a punch or slap without too much trauma. What I find even more unforgivable and horribly illegal is how the children were treated under DM's regime and how this had heartbreaking ramifications. When I came to the Base people with children were still allowed to work at Int headquarters, however, the children remained in LA in a nursery. Parents were promised to be able to go to LA and see their kids one day a week. This, though not optimum, worked somehow. It was called "family time". In 1986 or 1987 I remember how DM pestered and humiliated ED Int (Guillaume) for allowing family time, which he labelled "other intentioned." ED Int had two daughters himself, so of course he was not about to stop parents from seeing their children. DM, however, made Guillaume put out an issue canceling family time. Now those of us who had kids had no means of seeing them at all. Luckily, an exec who was a mother herself, decided to get the kids out of LA and brought them to a ranch close to the Int Base. So, if we were lucky we could sneak an hour a week with the kids during our "cleaning time" during Sunday mornings. It was an intolerable situation where kids were literally pulled away from their parents. I know of at least one justification that DM and Shelly had for the bizarre treatment of children. Shelly once briefed RTC staff that since babies were essentially "thetans" (spiritual beings) they could also be born SP (suppressive beings) and therefore you "never knew what you would get," so you better not have kids.
The children at the ranch were made to study only Scientology texts, not given a real education. They were made to do hours of manual labor every day. They were not allowed to really be children and some of the results were disastrous which has been covered in detail by Jenna Miscavige in the "Scientologykids.org" website.
My friend's daughter, for instance, couldn't fit in and literally was booted out at the age of 14, which was the result from DM's upset that his personal security guard was watching her. Her daughter eventually ended up homeless on the streets in LA. It was known she was on the streets - but instead of seeing the horror and danger imposed on her daughter's life in a city known for its gangs activity and crime, the only concern was to keep my friend disconnected from her, withholding the fact that her daughter reached out to her mother for help.
It is a tragedy how these children were treated and it would never had happened if it wasn't for DM. It is ironic that just a year ago I got to meet ED Int/Guillaume's daughter Laura. She left the Church with her sister around 15 years ago. They went on vacation to Italy to see their grandmother and refused to come back. Laura is a sweet, intelligent, friendly and beautiful girl who has not heard from her father in over 15 years. Not a letter, a phone call, birthday card - nothing. The reason is supposedly that when Laura and her sister left the church at the age of 6 and 8 they ended up not in "good graces". Therefore they are considered a bad influence on their dad. Go figure. But Laura doesn't understand and how does one explain? She wonders how her dad can hate his own daughters? She asked us what farce of an organization creates fathers who don't care for their own children?
THE USE OF RTC TO CONTROL THE BASE
It must be a mystery to many on the outside how one person can get so many others to be slavishly devoted to him. I will try to explain how it was done from my viewpoint. First of all, when DM arrived back to International Headquarters from several years in LA running ASI around 1987, he immediately seized control of RTC which he termed his organization. The sole purpose of RTC was to back him up in his endeavors. This was hammered into those who worked there. So for example, DM would go to a meeting with a bunch of staff from Int or Gold and lay out things that were to be done. Accompanying him would be 5-20 RTC staff who were to look out for anyone looking "strange," "sleepy" or otherwise having a bad reaction to what DM was saying. Those RTC staff were told to look "mean" and "cold." People who were noted as "not with the program" were then hauled in by RTC staff, put on an e-meter and asked questions until they fessed up what their "Counter Intentions" to DM were. They were asked questions such as if they had bad thoughts about him, if they had done something he would not approve of, etc. Whatever came up was written up in a report to DM and he would then use it to intimidate and humiliate the staff concerned. Let's say that the person in question confessed to some sexual thoughts or having masturbated. DM would read out the report aloud to all the execs of the headquarters. Thus, everyone was kept in constant fear of being found out in some way. Because even if you would keep clean as a whistle, who can keep their thoughts entirely under control? Having bad thoughts of any kind against DM was considered "disaffection" of the worst kind. Further, every time DM had one of these marathon meetings he would have his staff type up every word he said (minus any verbal or other abuse by DM) and these were issued to the execs in the meeting and they were to do an "M9" of them. That means reading the whole transcript aloud and each time one stumbled the M9 partner was to find a misunderstood word just before the stumble. A long transcript took hours to get through.
The staff who worked in RTC were "groomed" by DM and his assistant Shelly to work like an internal police toward the other people at the Base. Like Internal Affairs. This was, however, taken to an extreme that was absurd. The RTC staff were not to associate in any way with other orgs' staff. Example: AVC, a part of RTC, checked every telex and despatch that was sent out from the Base. One evening the AVC Exec, Fleur Thomas at the time, stayed up late to check telexes that DM had ordered "must go out" that night. When she and two of her other staff were done sending out the telexes all buses taking staff home were gone and there were no RTC staff left at the base. Fleur and her staff accepted a ride home with an Int Executive. DM found out and Fleur was "grounded" (not allowed to go home) for 2 months. It was called "fraternizing." He then ordered that the RTC staff were to go in their own buses and not together with the other Base staff. He finally ordered that those in RTC married to Base staff either divorce or be kicked out of RTC. Prior to that I heard him threaten several staff with having to divorce their spouses. He once came into the office where I worked and told 3 female staff that they were going to have to divorce their husbands, just like that. No specifics on why.
It seemed like every event and/or activity that was supposed to be pleasant was turned into a nightmare in RTC. Example: Weekly Staff Meeting. Staff Meeting is supposed to be a time when the staff come together, go over the events of the week and where the staff can speak out and ask for help with what's on their minds. In RTC, staff meeting was the most terrifying event of the week. Most staff were to speak, show their weekly statistics, tell about handlings for any flaps in their area and brief on the plans for the coming week. Fair enough. But DM, running the meetings, would verbally chop staff to pieces if he felt they said anything wrong. I even saw him remove people on the spot in the meetings. For example he once told Shelly Corrias who was the magazine editor "you're off post!" right in the middle of staff meeting. Staff would drill for hours prior to these meetings on what they were going to say and it surely took the joy out of feeling one belongs to a group. I know, compared to some of the other stuff it surely isn't a big deal but I wanted to give an example of what the atmosphere was like in RTC.
KEEPING THE STAFF COWED
You would ask why the hell people just didn't stand up and give him the finger and say they were leaving. But that would be as if asking an ant why he didn't attack and kill an elephant. DM had every resource in those headquarters at his disposal and speaking out in any way against him meant the most cruel treatment possible. including being under 24 hour guard. There were people who had tried to leave and you would see them, still there, after 1-2-3 years. You didn't want to go that way yourself. So there was another option; shut up and escape at the first possibility. But it had to be done in such way that you weren't caught. Because if you were then you were in for a long haul of being watched day and night sometimes for years. Now, add to that the fact that there are razor-wire fences around the property and guards 24-7 and you'll understand that it wasn't just a matter of walking away from it all. Further, we were entirely disconnected from the rest of the world; reading books (other than L. Ron Hubbard's) was considered unethical, no TV, no internet access and a schedule with 2-5 hours sleep and no liberty. When you're so tired you can't think. When you can't think it's hard to solve problems or defend yourself.
Another factor was the passage of time. It isn't as if suddenly, one day, all the violence started. The first thing I remember was DM just getting annoyed with the Execs concerned, leaving meetings in frustration. Then anger, yelling, calling people out. Then there was using violence sort of jokingly; like having people stand in front of them and he would give them a light kick in the butt for supposedly doing something stupid. Then the first slap, punch and finally attacking people flat out. This gradual increase of seriousness in the punishment made it look like the execs were literally driving him mad. That their actions or inaction were at the bottom of his behavior and that is what he repeated over and over again. He could also be compassionate with people and it was confusing that this same man who was beating and berating people could be so "kind." Like he would suddenly "find out" that someone was sick and order them to get the best possible medical care. He would find out someone hadn't slept and tell them to be taken care of. Of course it was all a show. He knew very well that people were staying up day and night for years, after all he was the one who coined the expression: "the night doesn't end until..."
Then it was the matter of the religion itself. Almost everybody who was at Int Headquarters had gained something from L. Ron Hubbard's teachings, texts that were not violent nor cruel. When DM arrived to Int Headquarters he would brief us repeatedly on the fact that the teachings had almost been lost because of the carelessness and evil of former execs as well as those currently there. He told us that he was going to be ruthless to protect the legacy of L. Ron Hubbard. It sounded cool, I mean who did not have moments when they had omitted to do their utmost to spread the religion?
WHY PEOPLE DON'T LEAVE
The reason that I am writing this up in such detail is because people keep asking me why the hell we didn't walk out? It all unfolded gradually and some people finally wised up and saw that it was insane. But even if you did, it was sometimes better to hang on for another year than to try to escape and be "caught" in which case you were in for a looooong haul. It is a big step to stand up and admit that whatever you have been involved with for the last 20 years is wrong, so you hold on, you try to make it right somehow to the bitter end. I keep thinking about some of the people I know who are still there. I believe that some of them might even consider it too late to start a new life. They are in their 60s, don't have much of a family on the outside, no profession to fall back on and everyone they care about is on the inside. So they must be telling themselves, every day, that it is all just happening because DM is protecting the religion and that they must be grateful and try to live up to his ideals. But I also think that some are just waiting for it all to be over, waiting for DM to make such big mistake that he has to remove himself from the lines. They don't know any other life than Scientology and they still want to try to make everything right. They have been threatened that DM will make their lives miserable if they leave. (He often boasted about his connections including the IRS, banks, etc. ) So I guess they finally wind up in a state of apathy on the subject of ever getting out and try to make the best of what they've got.
Let's say you raided the Base and asked staff to speak out about DM or asked them if they wanted to leave. You would be surprised how many would say that they loved being there and that DM is the greatest leader on earth. Some might even believe it but some just know that the moment you left they would face gruesome consequences for speaking their mind. There would only be one way to differentiate between those who want out and those who don't and that is to make it absolutely safe for the staff to speak out. I know that many of the fine people who are still there know at the bottom of their hearts that something is awfully wrong with DM. We didn't talk about it. It wasn't safe. But looks and implications can say more than words much between close friends.
I had personally decided that I was going to leave almost a year before I did. I was just waiting for the right time so I would not be caught. The THOUGHT of leaving had, however, entered my mind many years earlier. I knew something was wrong, so much so that almost 10 years before I actually left I started to make small notes in a diary I kept. I wouldn't spell things out but instead I would write cryptic abbreviations that only I myself could decipher. I would mark events such as DM hitting someone or doing something I found outrageous. Why was I doing it? Because I knew it wasn't right and that it would one day mean something. That's all. When I confessed to keeping such diary some years later, a frantic hunt for the diary began by RTC. ( I was no longer in RTC at that time.) It was as if the whole salvation of the planet depended on finding that diary -- or rather, making sure that any incriminating evidence was destroyed. Search parties -- going through all locations where I had been keeping my things, people being woken up in the middle of the night, you name it, went on for weeks.
Now, if such frenzy and effort went into finding a little diary that might, possibly have something incriminating written about DM, then you can ask yourself how far he is going to go to try to stop those who are now, finally, speaking out.....
SUMMARY
I hope this has given a better understanding of what was or might still be going on. It's a "religion" that has turned into a place that is hell on earth. Peace, love, tolerance and stillness, subjects that are part of any honest religion, are long gone from Scientology management. Yes, that is the way it is.
Written by BACK TO LIFE
|
|
| | Topic: Remember Debbie Cook? |
|---|
| Remember Debbie Cook? [message #12768] |
Mon, 10 May 2010 10:41 |
| |
Valkov
Messages: 1336
Registered: November 2009 |
Indigo |
|
|
Debbie was a highly trained and dedicated SOstaff whose photo always appeared in the "Source" magazines Flag used to send out.
Here is a partial account of her fate under David Miscavige,as related by Marty Rathbun:
Debbie Cook - 45 Days in the Hole
The level of sadism DM had sunk to since my departure after four days into the Hole in Feb 2004 are enough to boggle any civilized mind. Not only did all of International Management (CMO INT and Exec Strata), and then CO FSO, but also the by-then holed CO FCB (Kirsti Wilhere), and President CSI (Heber Jenzscth yes, the 75 year old plus several decade face of Scientology) were subjected to these inhumanities.
In the middle of summer 2007, when local temperature regularly rises well above 110 degrees, DM ordered the electricity in the Hole to be cut off for many days at a time. DM also ordered that the penniless Hole prisoners pay for their own food. What they paid for was, as one survivor described it, "slop" or like "gruel" Oliver Twist style. For breakfast it was only oatmeal, and all other meals were slop. Everybody had to wait in line and pay before eating. There were more than one hundred people there.
The same Korean brainwashing technique of physically forcing Holers to give confessions to the group were still going on daily; a practice DM instituted in 1998, and intensified in late 2003. Remember again, this is mid 2007.
In order to add insult to injury, DM had U Haul trucks pull up outside, and U Haul boxes brought in to let all participants know he was serious with his threats, "I'm going offload all of you." I am sure most would gladly have been offloaded, but after several years of mind torture they no doubt understood there was no way out.
On many occasions the Holee's were ordered to run a few hundred yards to the Cine Conference room where DM held court during event preparations. He would interrupt whatever he was doing to go out to the front lawn where the Holees had to stand for high volume toastings and severe degradation adjustments. They had to stand at attention for receipt of long, profanity laced dress downs of some or all of them depending on his mood.
One day DM announced to the assembled in the Hole that Marc Yager (one time CO CMO INT/WDC Chairman) and Guillaume Lesevre (one time ED INT) were homosexual and were engaged in a gay relationship. To those who have read my full blog and Scientology-cult.com you'd know that by that time, DM had been alleging this to the entire crew for ten years. But, for Debbie, Kristie (exCO FCB) and Heber, it was news.
Debbie was there when DM announced that Tom Cruise would come the next day to "punch you guys out" if the one hundred Holee's failed to get a confession out of Guillaume and Marc.
When DM left Jenny Linsen Devocht, Angie Blankenship, and Lisa Schroer (who were DM's pets at the time, sort of in charge of the Hole while being Holed themselves) decided that the Holees collectively will "give some people some black eyes before Tom has to." Russ Bellin (once CO CST) lead the charge of the bigger and stronger men in the hole who began the beat downs of Yager, Guillaume and Ray Mithoff (once Snr CS INT). The crew battered Marc, Guillaume and Ray. In the psychotic frenzy even Norman Starkey and Heber sustained some collateral damage. Debbie managed not to participate in the carnage.
When DM returned for a report, Lisa Schroer (who remained a DM pet throughout given her position as CO of Gold, that handles the only product he gives a damn about, Events) in her inimitable fashion, started embellishing the forced confessions allegedly gotten from Guillaume and Yager while under legally recognized conditions of torture. Lisa dutifully reported that Guillaume and Yager had in fact confessed to having a homosexual relationship.
Debbie tried to correct the report, interjecting that they never really confessed as Lisa was reporting. DM shut her up in a heartbeat. Once DM left, Lisa Schroer , who was a little more in charge of the Hole at the time than Jenny and Angie, briefed the Holees what a treasonous "bitch" Debbie was for "defending" Marc and Guillaume. She was accused of being "mutual out ruds" for having sided with the victims of torture. That included loud accusations from Lisa, Angie and Jenny that Debbie "must be a lesbo."
For the next twelve hours Debbie was made to stand in a large garbage can and face one hundred people screaming at her demanding a confession as to her "homosexual tendancies". While this was going on water was poured over her head. Signs were put around Debbie's neck, one marked in magic marker "LESBO" while this torture proceeded. Debbie was repeatedly slapped across the face by other women in the room during the interrogation. Debbie never did break. And fittingly she was rewarded with what turned out to be a break in another sense of the word.
When I confirmed all of these facts with multiple sources, I knew without a doubt there was no turning back for me.
I well remember the purpose of the Sea Org.
Written by Marty Rathbun
|
|
| | Topic: "The Road to Jonestown" |
|---|
| "The Road to Jonestown" [message #12724] |
Sun, 09 May 2010 07:13 |
| |
Valkov
Messages: 1336
Registered: November 2009 |
Indigo |
|
|
This was recently posted by "Back To Life" on another site:
"I recently came across a blog post where someone mentioned the atrocity of the assault on Mike Rinder the other day. They also commented on a mention by Marty concerning Jonestown. The blogger felt Marty's comparison was harsh. It's not the least bit harsh. Be it Jonestown, DM's "Scientology" or any other similarly gone-off-the-rails religion, it is important to understand the frame of mind of these people. They will do what DM says and it does not matter how insane, they will invent a reason that it is the "greatest good." Just imagine that DM just flew at least 7 people from LA to Florida to go and yell at Mike at a parking lot. Pretty bizarre, huh? Today we find out that no less than some 20 people were flown to Texas by DM to stop someone from leaving the Church. So the insanity is escalating rapidly into desperation and desperate people are dangerous.
I'm writing this to show how seemingly small things , indicators, were present a long time ago. They seemed fairly trivial at the time. Now they suddenly make sense for what they are -- signs of a megalomaniac at the top. But mostly I am writing it to support Marty's statement about the severity of the situation.
I remember an incident that occurred when I was fairly green in RTC. DM walked though the org with his Inspector Generals and spoke to each staff member. He asked us, "If I told you to run down to the lake on the property and throw yourself down the waterfall (it was made up of rocks) and into the murky water right now - would you do it for me?" It was fall. We were still in white uniforms. There was no purpose to the action as opposed to, say, saving someone from drowning . The whole idea was bizarre to most of us. Like a test to see if we were idiots. So most of us said, "No, Sir." A little while later, Marc Yager (then IG Admin) called us together. He was very stern and said that DM had just found the Why for RTC. We were a pack of un-dedicated, insubordinate creeps who only thought about ourselves and would not follow Command Intention. I remember this moment so clearly because it's the first time I thought, "Is this for real?" I remembered LRH writing something about slavishly following orders and not thinking for oneself. What happened to that?
Another incident occurred when I had just arrived to post in RTC. You know, I had settled in, gotten a desk and all and DM came stomping in with his wife Shelly and came up to me. "Whose orders do you implement, who do you work for?". "L.Ron.Hubbard!" I said merrily, thinking that I couldn't possibly go wrong with that answer. DM stomped out in disgust. Shelly stayed behind. "Your answer is wrong. You're in RTC. You work for COB. It's your only purpose." I was baffled. It was right there on my org board as my post purpose -- enforcing Ron's policies.
Little did I know that this was but a slight indication of what was to come. But that is why I am writing it up. It all started with smaller things, almost like jokes, little tests, making examples of people, getting mad. Then it got worse with corporal punishment, sleep deprivation, cruelty, etc. But one can ask, for what? What was he trying to beat into us? What was this submissiveness he was trying to achieve? He always said that he was trying to make us care about Scientology, expand it, etc. But after a while it made no sense. Anyone knows (even torturers or dog trainers!) that by cracking someone's will you render them less capable and less responsible.
DM was after something else. He said many times that the beingness of everyone at Int was wrong. In RTC the beingness was supposed to be "Cold Chrome Steel." People interpreted it in different ways but I can tell you that some of the most unpleasant, cold, cruel and heartless people I have ever met worked directly with DM. But were they really, or were they just trained to act that way? There is no doubt that he expected us to be mean and I definitely did my share of mean things. But I still didn't fit the bill in terms of that "ideal staff member" DM wanted us to be and he constantly called me weak, soft and reasonable.
So there was this "ideal staff member" who was good looking, dedicated only to Scientology and nothing else, needed no sleep to function, had no feelings for family or children, operated on a tone-level of no sympathy, had no personality and never did anything wrong -- and who no one could exemplify. And DM's constant frustration was that no one was like that ... only him. The sad truth is that this is an artificial valence that DM made up that doesn't exist, totally devoid of affinity, reality or communication. A robot, in other words.
One time DM had heard that a staff member had complained that my senior had been yelling . He came down with his personal staff entourage and told her to repeat the yelling with the worst ferocity she could muster up. She did. She even shoved a staff member into a wall. DM responded to the demonstration by throwing fits of laughter and asked his staff how that compared to what they had to put up with. They answered that her yelling was nothing in comparison. He ordered the Correction Officer to "toughen her up."
The result of all this in RTC was an extremely poor working environment where people were yelling at each other constantly, petrified of DM, shaking in their boots as he entered a room and incapable of making decision out of fear that "he" would disapprove. DM was often referred to in a whispering voice as "he". "He" is coming, "he" was here. When he came through the org he used to randomly pick on staff, sometimes just by looking at them: "he's got witholds" or "that guy is disaffected with me". The people remaining in the room after he left would pile onto the individual, yelling, shoving or whatnot to make him "come clean." The fact is that he wanted people to react to him like that. He would ask Lou, his communicator, in meetings: "What do staff do when I come into a room?" And she would go "Oh, they are petrified, they salute with both hands" and he would laugh smugly as if it were an incredible compliment.
There are instances where toughness is required. But there's a huge difference between that and simply being nasty, mean and cruel to people. And there was abundant cruelty at the Int Base and DM set the example for all. Things like constantly nagging Guillame and Marc saying that they were gay, heckling people for being overweight (Norman Starkey and Lyman Spurlock), reading people's sexual episodes from confessionals aloud in front of large groups, making mock dolls of people (Heber and Mike Rinder), making staff salute his dog (with shoulder boards), making people clean septic tanks with their bare hands and many more. These were not actions intended to help anyone or make them better executives. They were evil, plain and simple, intended to make them feel as bad as possible. His language lacked no modifiers to describe various staff in meetings and briefings: loser, degraded being, faggot, creep, pervert, scum, slut, c..t, c..k-sucker and many more. And after a while people start believing it.
Another way you can try to crack a human being is by restricting his freedom so much that he utterly depends on the "captor" for any survival. One way this was done by DM is by systematically canceling any times of joy or supposed relaxation. No family time, no liberty, no Xmas celebration, no New Years celebration, no Sea Org celebration, no 4th of July celebration, no marriages, were all orders that came out of DMs office. So in the end all that was left was to get up after 3 hours sleep and work. DM knew that no one would dare to cancel any of his orders . They therefore stayed in place forever. For instance, liberty was cancelled in 1992 and as far as I understand they still don't have it. So that's 18 years. Of course it's not beneficial to production. Then he would issue small "teasers" of freedom such as awarding someone with 1/2 day off after an event. He would then complain in meetings that he was the "only one" doing something for the staff. How bizarre. You wonder why these people that work for DM seem strangely pale and dead? Much like vampires they have not really seen they light of day much the last 20 years. They sit in offices all day long, in-fighting, doping off and trying to work out things to please DM. They've been doing it for so long that time is just a blur and the seasons float in and out of each other like a long stream of noise.
They have been through 20-30 years of badgering and threats. On and off. But DM always comes back to those "favorite" people who he loves to badger, punish and belittle with more. Something that is "really going to crack them" this time. Some of those favorites wised up and escaped and those are the people you now see in the news and on the front lines speaking out. As far as those who are still there, God only knows what is going on inside their heads. Their souls are turning into black coal as the years go by. But I am sure that some of them are also carefully planning an escape, knowing that they will have to outsmart some 20 people who will be sent to hunt them down.
Some have long since stopped feeling compassion for others. Their feelings have either died completely or they are terrified that anyone will find out that they still have them, so suppress them the best they can. They are frantically, every day trying to be that "ideal staff member" that DM wants . They believe that people like Marty and Mike are better off dead than alive (Yes, they do, it's the truth).
It is extremely important that this not be overlooked, justified or ignored, not just for the sake of Scientology but because it is inhuman. There were indicators like that at Jonestown, Waco and every other cult that cost innocent lives. And no human being should ever have to be treated like that. I have written this in the hopes of trying to make real the frame of mind those people (Cathy Rinder, Jenny Linson, Guillaume, Norman, et al) are in. Why they have dark circles under their eyes and froth around their mouths. Why they seem cold and distant. And why Marty is dead-on when he talks about Jonestown. It's not that everyone will literally drink poisoned Kool-Aid. It's that this cruelty, violence and insanity will inevitably wind up with a very bad end. It started small and is only getting worse. You've got people like Marty, Mike, Steve, et al who are openly speaking out and taking the brunt of the harassment. Then you've got people like myself who are writing anonymously because I am still too afraid that DMs henchmen will hurt people I love dearly. Somehow that's better than doing nothing though and there are others who can confirm these horror stories of violence and humiliation. Please do. It really matters."
-- Back To Life
Within hours after this article was posted, a new whistle blower decided to come forward, ALIVE AND WELL, who has written an article confirming what is written here and elsewhere throughout this website. Click here to read more.
|
|
| | Topic: Dalai Lama comments on Ideal Orgs... |
|---|
| Dalai Lama comments on Ideal Orgs... [message #12648] |
Tue, 04 May 2010 21:06 |
| |
scino
Messages: 59
Registered: November 2009
Location: Netherlands |
Orange |
|
|
Well, not specifically... or maybe it is.
The purpose of religion is not to build beautiful temples but to cultivate positive human qualities such as tolerance, generosity and love. ( From Dalai Lama's verified Twitter account. http://twitter.com/DalaiLama )
The Mormon's are busy builders as well. Come to think of it, Islam folk are at it too, they like building mosques.
Let's imagine we form a Freezone ORG of about 100-200 Scientologists. What are the alternatives for a building? No building at all. Meet at rotating hotels, etc. Rented office space?? I suppose soon the 2D-type-of desire to 'settle' the ORG would hit in. And then why not the most beautiful building in the area? Because we are proud on our little freezone heaven on earth.
Just trying to follow the reasoning. I think the Dalai Lama built a rather nice sort of palace for himself and his servants. I wonder how much of LRH-ness is behind the facade.
|
|
| | Topic: May 9th: AMY SCOBEE DAY! |
|---|
| May 9th: AMY SCOBEE DAY! [message #12478] |
Sat, 01 May 2010 05:39 |
 |
Alanzo
Messages: 1383
Registered: November 2009
Location: A Very Large Cornfield |
Indigo |
|
|
On May 9th, 2010, a book will be released that blows the lid off of the secrecy and lies that the celebrity face of Scientology has been hiding behind for decades.
Since the invention of fire, there has never been a hotter book!
See Amy reveal what she saw for herself and knew to be true here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILkIGfrrBh4
And buy her book RIGHT NOW here:
http://www.scobeepublishing.com/
Thank you, Amy, for your courage and clear intention to help Mankind.
Alanzo
|
|
| | Topic: Scientology Philosophy and Scientology Practice(s) |
|---|
| Scientology Philosophy and Scientology Practice(s) [message #11918] |
Tue, 20 April 2010 11:17 |
| |
Valkov
Messages: 1336
Registered: November 2009 |
Indigo |
|
|
This is a post from Marty Rathbun's blog that does a pretty good job of differentiating the difference between a philosophy and various practices that can arise from it.
I have enclosed the link to the post at the end, as often the comments are well worth reading.
Scientology Philosophy and Practice
April 19, 2010 · 63 Comments
Religions consist of philosophy and practice. They are two distinct, separate things. LRH explains this in detail in the lecture Scientology, Its General Background, Part II, 19 July 1954 (The Phoenix lectures). He also explains how a "Saint" can come along and create a whole new practice based on an existing philosophy and, voila, you've got a whole new church:
Now, religious practice could take the identical source and by interpretation put it into effect and so create various churches, all dependent upon the identical source, such as Saint Luke. If we think of the number of Christian churches there are and we look at this one book, Saint Luke, and realize that just this one book, Saint Luke, was productive of Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Catholics and here we go!
We have this tremendous number of practices basing upon one wisdom. So let's get a very clear differentiation here when we talk about religious philosophy and religious practice. And someone who comes to you and says, "So-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so is actually the way you are supposed to worship God," you can very cleanly and very clearly and very suddenly bring him to a halt by merely mentioning to him that he is talking about religious practice and you are talking about religious philosophy. Even a Catholic priest hauls up, so that you smell his brakes on that one.
You would think that all the DM-bots being forced to study the "basics", including the Congresses and other 1950s lectures might one day come to the realization that Miscavige's training PRACTICES and his solo auditing PRACTICES and his ETHICS/JUSTICE PRACTICES and his Fundraising PRACTICES bear no resemblance to, and in fact are quite contrary to, the religious PHILOSOPHY of Scientology. Wouldn't you? In my view, that they do not is testament to the BLACK DIANETICS, REVERSE SCIENTOLOGY nature of Miscavige's PRACTICES.
Whatever you do, do not ever invalidate your knowingness and livingness of the PHILOSOPHY of Scientology. It is the wisdom of the subject. Without the PHILOSOPHY there is no purpose for PRACTICE. Practice that is not conducted in a manner so as to attain the philosophy is bad practice. PRACTICE should always lead toward realization of PHILOSOPHY or wisdom.
Don't ever let a DM bot make you feel guilty. Do not ever be embarrassed or tongue tied around a DM-bot. All he or she will ever make you wrong about are DM's PRACTICES. Arguing about his PRACTICES is fruitless. It is an argument they are not allowed to think with. So, why bother with it? Instead, talk to him or her about the PHILOSOPHY of Scientology. It is something not only not achievable in the C of M, but something DM's practices drive people further and further away from. If you talk to them about the PHILOSOPHY of Scientology you are liable to stop them in their tracks so fast you'll be smelling their brakes.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/scientology-phil osophy-and-practice/
|
|
| | Topic: If DM were charged with a crime? |
|---|
| If DM were charged with a crime? [message #11194] |
Fri, 02 April 2010 05:33 |
|
I wonder what would happen if DM got convicted or even just charged with a crime? I have seen in writing that the C of S made an agreement in 1977 with the US government to not allow criminals to be hired by the church. This was made in an attempt to obtain
a non-profit status. So, it's not a stretch to see what really happened to the GO, if you connect the dots. So, could this be why DM seems so afraid of any criminal investigation?
|
|
|
Pages (3): [1 ]
Current Time: Fri Sep 10 14:38:39 CEST 2010
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
Job description: A Church of Scientology Party-line Toer